004: Leading, Even in Vulnerability
In this episode of The Social Leader, Fr. Justin Mathews talks with Megan Hyatt Miller, Chief Operating Officer at Michael Hyatt & Co., leading strategic direction, brand management, growth initiatives, and general operations for the leadership coaching company. Megan joined us to talk about leading in the face of uncertainty, staying focused while working from home with her five children, seeing opportunities to grow in leadership right now, and the responsibility of leaders to "go first" even in their vulnerability.
EPISODE 4 - TRANSCRIPT
Fr. Justin Mathews: Hello and welcome friends to The Social Leader, episode 4. Today my guest is Megan Hyatt Miller. I look forward to having this conversation about leadership and making a social impact. Stay tuned.
Fr. Justin: Welcome Megan, how are you?
Megan Hyatt Miller: I'm great, Father Justin. Thanks for having me today. It's great to be here.
Fr. Justin: It's great to have you here. I'm very excited to introduce our audience to you. You've been a longtime friend of mine. You just are doing some incredible work in the areas of leadership and envision. You're an incredible mom and I just can't wait for people to get to know you. So let's introduce you. Megan Hyatt Miller is the COO of Michael Hyatt & Company. She is an author, a podcaster, a coach, a live speaker. You work with your family, your dad, Michael Hyatt, to put out some incredible products like the Full Focus Planner, which here at Reconciliation Services, we use religiously. I have to tell you, it's a part of our culture. But what did I miss? Tell everybody about you and what I missed about you, Megan, so they get to know you.
Megan: Well, thank you for that. That was very generous. You know, Michael Hyatt & Company is all about leadership development. We're really a leadership development company that helps overwhelmed but successful leaders to get the focus they need, which right now I feel like is more important than ever and more challenging than ever, so that they are able to have what we call the double win, which is winning at work, but also succeeding at life. We feel like winning at work is not enough. We really want to see our clients and our customers succeed in their life as a whole. And I think that involves some of the things that we're going to talk about today. So that's really our mission. As you said, I am a mom of five kids, ages almost 19 in two more weeks to 1, we just adopted a baby girl. Three of those children are adopted, two are my step kids, so we have a very unique family. It's busy, but it's wonderful. Like everybody else, we're trying to figure out how my husband and I do our work from home with all the kids home. So it's an exciting time.
Fr. Justin: You, like my wife, are a saint. Working at home from all of the things that you do with five kids and so many people out there are doing it. I think that's a great place to launch off. I’d rather start with the personal then jump into leadership. I think everybody in our audience knows that at Reconciliation Services and on The Social Leader we're really talking about how to have a greater social impact through leadership. But before we jump into that, I really want to know about how you're surviving right now. What are some of the hacks, the tips, the tricks that you're using to sort of stay sane in these uncertain times?
Megan: Well, it's easier said than done. I think we're reading a lot in the news, and just experiencing personally, how challenging it is to maintain a sense of equilibrium, even if we are, maybe one of our kids or our spouse or a roommate is having challenges and it's just tough. So I think you know a few things that I'm doing that certainly are not perfect, but have worked well for me. One of the things I'm doing is moving every day. Every afternoon when I'm finished working, I go out with my husband, Joel, and we go on a walk around our neighborhood. Normally we're leaving our kids except for the baby at home. They're watching their shows, we get a little time to ourselves. And that's really helpful. I read an article from Dr. Curt Thompson, who is really an amazing author and physician, talking about the challenge of embodiment right now. We're so disconnected in this virtual space, this like Zoom-world that we're living in, from a normal human experience. And one of the things that he recommends is to move every day and preferably in several small increments so you can kind of get back into your body. So I think that's really important, especially for leaders, especially if you're spending most of your time on Zoom all day every day, like I am, like you probably are. So that's really helpful. Just get outside and move. I think the other thing is having a plan for your day. That may sound obvious, but you mentioned at the beginning that one of the products that we have at Michael Hyatt & Company is called the Full Focus Planner. It's a 90 day planner and in it it has a whole system for productivity and personal achievement. One of the practices in that planner is that you identify every day, what we call your Daily Big Three. Those are the tasks that are truly important and urgent, usually that you must accomplish to make progress on your weekly objectives. What I do in the morning is I have time in prayer that's quick. It's like five to 10 minutes max, because I'm doing this before my baby gets up. And I'm getting out my Full Focus Planner for the day, I'm identifying my Big Three, and I'm writing down my schedule for the day. I feel like that gives me two things, a sense of control and a sense of accomplishment. Both of which are really important and not a default right now, so that's been helpful.
Fr. Justin: Yeah, absolutely. I was just talking with my wife, Jodi, today about how it felt like when the adrenaline was really high in the first 30 days after the pandemic. We're recording this during the time that we're still on quarantine and in lockdown during the global pandemic. I think because of all the anxiety in those first 30 days we were going on a walk together, just the two of us. And it's not that we don't spend time together but we both live such busy lives and we have three teenage kids. That moving was really helpful. I think when we get stressed that moving is something that we forget to do. We also forget to breathe. We forget to hydrate. We forget to take care of ourselves. What are some of the other ways right now that you're really taking care of yourself so that you can be present as a leader in your family and in your company?
Megan: Well, this is kind of radical. But to your point, we had that big adrenaline rush at the beginning, first two or three weeks. It was really stressful, but you just had the sense that I have so much energy and we can just take on whatever challenges we're facing. We found that our people really hit a wall on the other side of that. We have about 40 employees and on the other side of that, we hit a wall, and we ended up shortening our work day, from nine to three, because we have parents. People who are parents who are trying to work from home with toddlers and other kids. It's really stressful and they're trying to do the same work that they would normally do with an unbelievable amount of stress, right? We're carrying so much right now that we don't even necessarily understand. And so that has been a real secret to our success. Incidentally, we haven't lost any productivity. We're still able to accomplish the things that we need to accomplish. But there's time for people to rejuvenate. So that has been a real key. Personally for me, like I said earlier, I've been moving. I've also been prioritizing going to bed early. I just turn into a pumpkin after 9:30. My husband does not. He could stay up till two in the morning, but I've got to be in bed at 9:30. And it is really critical.
Fr. Justin: If we're gonna have that massive impact, if we're going to have beyond our normal leadership impact, if we're going to make a social impact in our community that brings us from a transactional leadership to a transformational leadership where we move beyond the corporate norms and get into something that has a longer or more eternal value, really taking care of yourself is important. I wish I could say that I've been going to bed early like you, but I'll be honest, I've been struggling with keeping my heart and my mind off of the news, off of the phone. Has that been a struggle for you to keep your focus? Or maybe just to keep doing deep work? Has it been hard for you?
Megan: It has been hard and I think that we're all kind of experiencing that together. One of the things that has helped me is to just limit my news consumption to certain parts of the day, to not be deep in the news right before I go to bed. It seems like all the big stuff comes out in the morning anyway and that kind of tends to be my time, after I've done my quiet time and planning for the day and so forth, I'll tend to check in on the news. I do think that helps, but it is hard. I think we have to be kind with ourselves right now. We're all struggling in different ways and that presents itself in different ways. Maybe you're having trouble sleeping. Maybe you're more irritable than normal as a leader or at home. Maybe you use up all of your strength during your day at your job and then you come home and your family is just one thing too many. That's just a reality for a lot of us. I think it helps to be kind yourself as a leader. I think this question around what you are doing to kind of support yourself and have self care is important. As leaders right now, we're not just taking care of ourselves in a stressful time and all that that entails, we're also caring for our people who are under enormous stress. The emotional need that they have that normally would be outside of the scope of our work and our companies is totally now within the scope of our day-to-day work. I'm regularly dealing with issues with people where they're really struggling personally and that shows up at work. I think that's just our reality.
Fr. Justin: You hit on something really important, which is the mental health piece of it. At Reconciliation Services probably 45 days ago, we instituted something that we call the mental health hour. We're still an essential service and we're doing social services and mental health and food work, and everything has ramped up. There is tremendous need right now in Kansas City and particularly at this time all across the United States, so many people who are working poor. In particular, this is really hitting communities of color harder than it's hitting some of us. One of the things that we noticed was that the staff really had done a whole lot during the day, partly because there's adrenaline, but then by the end of the day, there was just this sense of drain. And I actually heard on one of your podcasts that I shared with our team, there's this sense of being a fountain or being a drain and which one are you going to be. So in order to try to help our staff who are helpers and caregivers in the community remain a fountain, emotionally and spiritually and with their own mental health, we instituted a shorter work day as well, where if they want to work till five they can, but we have a new little code in the timesheet where they can just say I'm taking a mental health hour and it doesn't count against normal PTO, it's just additional PTO. Taking that time to rest is really important, isn't it?
Megan: I think it really is, because you can't just focus only on productivity right now. If you play that game, that's a short term game. I think you really have to play the long game, which is getting your whole team through this in one piece where people are integrated, where they're healthy mentally, they have the support that they need, so they can come out on the other side, and not just fall over the finish line, but really be standing strong. That is a huge leadership challenge for all of us.
Fr. Justin: I want to pivot to talk just a little bit about a subject that I know you've thought a whole lot about, and that's trauma. While we talk about mental health and uncertain times, there really is another layer. If you've experienced trauma, or if you've grown up in an environment where trauma is not something that's just done to you, but it's sort of the air that you breathe, that makes it all the more difficult to be resilient when real uncertainty happens. What's been your experience as a leader, and as a mom, and as an individual trying to work your way through trauma in this pandemic? How do you lead folks who've experienced significant trauma right now? What do we do?
Megan: Oh, my gosh, this is such a great question and I think it's not something that's been talked enough about. I wish that it were being talked more about. A great resource is Bessel van der Kolk, who wrote the book The Body Keeps The Score. It is such a great book. He's been doing some great videos talking about trauma and kind of how to think about that right now, if that's been your experience. I point people to that. First of all, I think I think this is a top area of concern. This is something in my own personal life that has been kind of central. We have three of our five children who've experienced quite a bit of trauma. As I said, three of our five kids are adopted. No child is available for adoption who did not first go through an incredible amount of trauma, so that's something that has been part of our reality that we've been dealing with for years for them and really trying to think through it. Additionally, my husband and I have had some secondary trauma as a consequence of that which we have worked through ourselves. Then of course, in the context of our business, many of our people have experienced trauma. Some of those things I know, some of them I don't know, it doesn't really matter. What it means is that the way you respond to this is so different than if you sort of had a blank slate, if anybody actually has a blank slate. I think it's just important to have that in your mind to remember that when you experience reactions in yourself. Maybe you see a piece of news and you find yourself kind of manically responding to that, like getting really busy, or you have a situation where you see a team member who can't stop working or who can't kind of get themselves going. Those are kind of two opposite responses to trauma. Sometimes there's a lot going on under the surface. I think it's helpful for all of us to remember that there is more going on for ourselves, for our children, and for the people that we're leading or serving than we could ever imagine. If we try to just respond to the surface issue, we're not going to be very successful. So just slow down, right? We have to ask questions, we have to be compassionate, we have to try to provide support in ways that maybe as business leaders or nonprofit leaders, we're not used to. You guys, I think, have an advantage in this in that those are things that you're thinking about already at Reconciliation Services. I think you could educate the rest of us with that. But I think for those of us who are kind of in a results-oriented culture, we have to think about it differently.
Fr. Justin: Right. I think you bring up an interesting thing that definitely ties into The Social Leader and what we're trying to do. For us, The Social Leader is trying to bring on leaders that are not only succeeding at work and life, but who also are going that extra step and saying that part of success is not just having a strong ROI, but trying to figure out in my own emphasis, my own sphere, how can I have a social return on investment, whether I'm a foreman on a construction job, or I'm the CEO. Each of us has the ability, if we get educated, to be able to have that deeper social impact and to practice what we call social leadership. Coming up, when the world opens up again, we're actually going to be launching an experiential learning skills based learning program called The Social Leader, so stay tuned for that at Reconciliation Services. You really have had some exposure yourself both in leading a company focused on productivity, being a mom who's had kids and people in your workplace that have experienced trauma, you've had an opportunity to become more educated around the areas of trauma and mental health. How do you feel like becoming more educated about trauma and about social issues has helped you grow in your leadership? How has that helped you expand your framework from which you can make decisions. And what's been the outcome of that?
Megan: Well, it's a great question. It's funny when we're thinking about leadership, we often think about the hard skills: Can you deliver results? Can you hire successfully? Can you produce new products? Can you take market share? However, I think the biggest challenge that any leader faces, and I find this in my own leadership and I find it in the 400 clients that we coach, are relational. The biggest challenge is our relationships. If you think about your own leadership and something that you've been struggling with, performance issues maybe or results that you're not achieving, behind that is really something rooted in relationship. So the soft skills around understanding how people work, what drives people, what gets in the way for people, where do they get stuck, where do you get stuck is critical for us to be able to do the things that we feel like are the real leadership. The real leadership is actually the relational work and so I think anything that develops our self awareness, our social awareness to get out of our own experience and understand someone else's experience and be able to adapt our approach in a way that's effective for those people that reaches people in a different way, is really critical. I think that that's what we need now more than ever. I also think it's become clear to us that the boundaries between our professional lives in our work and our personal lives and the personal lives of those people that were leading were not nearly as strong as we thought, We actually have a lot more integration. It's probably the nicest way to say it between those two parts of our life.
Fr. Justin: How do you feel like this situation and our wide global exposure to this sense of vulnerability is increasing our ability to have that relational connection with our employees, with our family, and with our friends? Is it building what some have called sort of that vulnerability virtue in us? And how do you see that happening in your own life?
Megan: I think it certainly can. I think it's a decision though. I think as a leader, sometimes what can happen, and I felt this temptation myself and then decided that's just not how I want to show up, is that on the one hand, I need to project a demeanor of confidence for my team, I need to be decisive, I need to make the decisions that are gonna keep us healthy as a company and protect jobs, for example. It’s the top top thing everybody's thinking about. On the other hand, I'm a real person. I'm a real person with real kids who's really locked in my house with five kids every day, and have my own anxieties, my own past traumas. And if I deny those things, and I'm unwilling to speak to them, my people are going to feel like that's my expectation of them as well and then we're all not processing things and then it's all just going to come home to roost later. So I feel leaders have to go first. We have to go first with the risky decisions. We have to go first with the hard conversations. But we also have to go first with vulnerability. And if you can challenge yourself as a leader to come through this and just acknowledge those things, I don't actually think it takes your power away or makes you less strong. I think it does the opposite. Because you’re now communicating in a much deeper level of empathy, which is maybe the most powerful of all.
Fr. Justin: Yeah, obviously, I'm a priest and so I'll speak from my tradition as an Orthodox Christian priest. Really what you're saying hits home when I think about the fact that it's actually through suffering, that joy comes into the world. It's not from pushing away the suffering or pushing away the difficult feelings that we’re actually going to become powerful. It's that true power comes and really that true personal joy in our life comes when we allow and embrace that suffering to be a part of our daily experience. And that's difficult. When you talk about trauma and you talk about these mental health issues, the other thing that comes to mind are all of the visions, all of the awareness that's been done about diversity and equity and inclusion. I'm really grateful for the limited media coverage, but the media coverage that there has been about the real health equity disparities that are happening right now during COVID. Because black and brown people and indigenous people are suffering at higher and higher numbers, even dying at higher numbers than folks who are white. And so that is an important thing to stop and look at. Right now a lot of leaders in companies, COOs, CEOs, Senior VPS have talked for a long time about how we are going to shift diversity and inclusion in our company. What do you think the opportunity is right now as a woman who's leading a fast growing company? What's the opportunity for you to maybe actualize some of those priorities as we come out of this COVID crisis?
Megan: Well, one of the things that you brought up a second ago was the concept of suffering, that idea of what do we do with suffering? Do we push it away? Do we deny it? Do we try to escape it? How do we handle it? I think one of the gifts of this crisis is the ability to understand the suffering of other people in a way that maybe felt distant before or not our concern, if I'm going to just kind of be crass about it, where you’re sort of not going to edit your own thinking. I think we all know now that we are interconnected in a way that we did not fully understand before. And in that we have a responsibility to one another that's different and more urgent than we knew. I'm speaking “we” as in those of us who are upper middle class and white that had the kind of buffer of privilege. That the privilege has not been stripped away. In fact, it's probably more stark now than ever and we understand that in a way that viscerally that we maybe didn't. But the veil has been stripped away, we understand differently that our neighbors are suffering. We understand that I can go to my grocery store and buy 10 packs of toilet paper, before that was not something I could do. But my neighbors half a mile away in public housing can't do that. And that's a problem. That's something we have to think about. So I think this is a very timely thing to think about. It's something I'm really wrestling with myself. In our own family, racial reconciliation has been something that's been very important to us, a conversation that we've had for a long time. You were visiting with us not that many months ago and we talked a little bit about that. That's part of my professional history as well, but it's not something that we have brought into our company in an active way, in the way that I would like to. It's been kind of more personal, though our staff is fairly diverse, actually, which is great. We've made that a priority in our hiring and recruiting, but I don't think that's enough. I think the question is what's our relationship to the community? What's our responsibility to the community from the position that we're standing in? And I don't know the answer exactly to that. But I know that it's important. And I know that it's more urgent now than it was previously. The awareness of that is more urgent.
Fr. Justin: Yeah, you bring up some good points. Sort of what I'm hearing you say is we've got a move from awareness to actualization of those priorities. This is something I've been thinking a lot about. In fact, I'm planning on doing a podcast about it soon. There is going to be a tidal wave of 10’s of millions of people coming back into the workforce when the world opens up again. Millions of people are going to be applying. First of all, how are those people going to differentiate themselves? I really believe that people who are trained or who are thinking like social leaders, people who want to have a larger social impact beyond just their normal work impact, they're going to stand out when folks are coming to hire. That kind of community mindset also isn't just about charity and philanthropy. It's about creativity. It's about innovation. It's about seeing how can we, as a company, not only embrace diversity, because it's good, it’s moral, right? But actually, how do we see diversity, equity, and inclusion as a superior growth model for our company and for our region? And when we start talking about the ROI of companies, I think we start hitting at the bottom line. Now we get people's attention. Well, this is the opportunity right now, there's a tidal wave coming of people that are going to be looking to be hired. As you think about your leadership and your company, how do you see yourself moving beyond the old conception of charity and giving from your excess as a company or as an individual? How do you get beyond the charity bucket and get really into a deeper engagement as a social leader in the community? Have you guys thought about that? Have you done anything in that regard? Or are you thinking about doing something like that?
Megan: I'm definitely thinking about doing something like that. In fact, it is on my list of goals this year to develop a task force around this, made up of a diverse group of people to really pull the people into that group who have diverse perspectives and say, what's our impact going to be, where do we want to serve, where we want to learn, where we want to grow, where do we want to make a contribution. And I think that’s kind of what you're getting at. That it's not just about serving. It's also about learning. It's about relationships. How can we develop two way relationships that are win-win where we're both having the opportunity to contribute and serve and learn? Because there's a lot we need to learn. There's a lot we need to understand. It's not just about, “hey, we have it all figured out, we're a successful company and we're going to come give some things to you because we can and that makes us feel good about ourselves.” That's not enough. I think what we're really looking at is transformation, but transformation in both directions. Not assuming that the people that need transformation are just the people we're serving, but that we ourselves need transformation. That can only happen through relationships. So it is something I'm thinking about and I would love to hear your answer to that question. How would you guide me? Because I would imagine that I represent a lot of people that are listening to the show that are similarly like newly awakened to this needs to be a top priority, and yet, how do I actualize that?
Fr. Justin: Yeah, and that would be another podcast when I come on your show. You have a much larger audience. But that is also what The Social Leader program is all about and what this show and the podcasts that are coming are about, trying to glean from 22 years of nonprofit leadership from myself and then trying to glean from our team who are on the frontlines, Master's level social workers who are doing strength-based case management motivational interviewing, following clinical and data driven measures to be able to help bring that transformation. I'll be honest with you, I've often thought that one of the things that has worked for me, and I'll use the Full Focus Planner as a good example that you guys publish at Michael Hyatt & Company, is when I've been able to bring internal order it helps to calm the external chaos. Usually we go the other way. We usually try to calm the external chaos and bring order there and then hope it calms down the inside but actually the inverse is true. Our thoughts determine our lives, really fixing the way that we think. I've thought about your company and some of the tools as they stand. If there were a way to be able to teach the folks that we work with, low and moderate income folks who don't have access to 30 extra dollars for a planner, things like that. But if you could be able to deliver to them the life lessons and the tools that you deliver to people like me and others in the corporate world, I believe it could make a really big difference. Those are some of the gaps in access that are sort of not thought about. So I would challenge you and would love to actually think through and brainstorm with Michael Hyatt & Company and anybody listening. I really believe companies have the opportunity to do more than give charity and have more than like a charity committee. They can think like social ventures, like people who crave, in entrepreneurship, the ability to have a social impact to bring a social return on investment while they're bringing that return on investment that they're calling for.
Megan: And by the way, one of the things if you're a leader that you know, when you're hiring, right now, when you're hiring millennials in particular, they care so much about meaning and purpose. And this is critical. I mean, this is not only good for the world, good for you, good for the people you're serving. This is a competitive advantage for your company to have this figured out. Because people who are considering coming to work for you and who are buying your products want to know what do you stand for, how are you investing, how are you giving back? We had a guy on our coaching Q&A call recently, his name is Philip Stutz. He had done a big study on consumer behavior right now, interviewed 5000 people, processed the data, and came up with the conclusions. His background is in marketing, so this was kind of like how you think about marketing. The things that people are caring about right now are: Am I safe? Are the people I'm dealing with trustworthy? And are they helping others? Again, that idea of interconnectedness is really important right now to people. They understand it doesn't feel good to be individualistic and just out for your own gain. That doesn't play well right now. It was never good, but I think right now it feels particularly tone deaf. So this is relevant right now. And obviously it has eternal significance. But it's also relevant from a business perspective right now. And I think that that should help to motivate us all to get it figured out.
Fr. Justin: Yeah, I really agree with you. I think that this issue of becoming a social leader in every company, from a minerals mining company to a productivity company, and beginning to shift your thinking as a leader to ask yourself: How can I as a company built into the economics and the system of what I'm doing? How can I have a social impact? Those questions, like you said, are important to millennials. So it's not only going to be a bottom line question, but it's a bottom line when you think about engagement of employees and retention of employees. The bus has come and left on that and if companies aren't already thinking, if leaders aren't already thinking about how do I move beyond the charity bucket and become an educated social leader, you're going to be left in the dust. The other thing that you said I think is really important. One of my favorite podcasters, I'm kind of crazy, so I like really out there entrepreneurial stuff, but there's a guy who I listen to all the time named Alex Charfen. His manifesto just fires me up every day that he gives. I love that guy. He talks about right now, in this crisis, that people aren't looking for vitamins anymore, they're looking for painkillers. People are not looking for that feel good extra thing that I can buy, that's an additive to my life, that's not essential. They're looking for painkillers. People are out of work, and companies are needing talent, and the world has shifted. So the companies, and I will say, the leaders, no matter whether you're at the top or in the middle, or the bottom of a company working your way, the leaders that can shift their thinking to become those social leaders who are trying to learn alleviate pain in the community, and then our company, those are the ones that are going to are going to thrive and succeed. And so I just really appreciate you bringing out all the things that you've shared with us today. You're such an inspirational leader. I know we have a very significant number of women on our staff here and I keep trying to share your material and content. In fact, two weeks ago on a Thursday all staff meeting, which was virtual and by Zoom, we actually shared the podcast that you all put out and that you led on being resilient in difficult times. You're a really inspirational person, a dear friend, a great leader. I want to give you the final word as we close out. What challenge would you give those who are listening and those who want to become better leaders and social leaders? What would you leave us with as we close today?
Megan: Well, thank you for those kind words first of all, Father, Justin. I really appreciate it. It's always a joy to be with you. I wish we just lived closer, so we could hang out more often. I think this is an incredible time and an incredibly important time for leadership. It's never been more important. It's never been more vital. People have never needed it more or been more dependent on leaders right now to help us find our way through this, to help us understand it and make meaning out of it. I think that's really the opportunity that's on the table. I think what you're offering people in this concept of social leadership and social entrepreneurship is the opportunity to do this at a level that many of us have never thought about before. So I would just encourage you, as a leader, to expand your vision, to think bigger, to ask what this crisis makes possible that you may have never considered for yourself as a leader, for your company, and for your impact in the world? Because I think we have an opportunity like we've never had before. So thanks again. This has been really, really great to be with you.
Fr. Justin: Thank you. This is wonderful. You left us on the perfect note. Thank you again for your time and we'll look forward to having you back on the show again sometime soon.
Megan: Thanks, Father Justin.
Fr. Justin: All right, everybody. I really appreciate you joining us today. I want to remind you that The Social Leader is sponsored by Reconciliation Services. Please follow us on Facebook, on Twitter, on Instagram, and on YouTube. Make sure to smash that “like” button and subscribe so that you can get updates. We're doing The Social Leader podcast at least once a week, usually 10am on Tuesday, but like today, when we get the opportunity to have really special guests come and speak to us we'll be throwing those out there more and more often. Also make sure that you visit Reconciliation Services online and understand how your gift to Reconciliation Services right now can make an incredible difference. We need you right now. We're literally serving more than 350 people a day some days out of Thelma’s Kitchen, which is our social venture here in Kansas City that's feeding the community. We're also offering lots of transformational social services, therapy services, and economic community building. Whether you're here in Kansas City and want to support us, or whether you're inspired by the work by RS, we need your help, especially right now, during this pandemic. Don't forget, there are many, many people who cannot shelter in place. Many people who don't have access to hygiene. Many people who already started, as Megan said, sort of below the zero line and are really struggling to survive and succeed. That's what Reconciliation Services is all about. That's what we're doing in the community. And that's really what social leaders are thinking about: how can I move from a transactional leadership to a community-oriented transformational leadership? So stay tuned. I'm very excited, coming up in the next show we're going to have Mayor Quinton Lucas here in Kansas City. It's going to be an incredible conversation about leadership in Kansas City during this time of COVID-19. Until next time, again brought to you by Reconciliation Services, I'm Father Justin. We look forward to seeing you back on The Social Leader very soon.